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UAVs

Sat Apr 19, 2008, 7:17 PM
  • Mood: Rant
  • Listening to: Angel's Son - Sevendust
  • Reading: Halo: First Strike
  • Watching: Freakin' Indycar race got rain delayed!
  • Playing: Mass Effect
I just posted a new shot of the Predator UAV, and I decided to weigh in on this in the hope of starting a discussion on the subject.

Several years ago, when I was in USAF ROTC, I wrote a paper on the coming wave of unmanned aerial vehicles on their way into the USAF inventory. The Predator, Reaper and Global Hawk are fantastic aircraft... in the role that they were designed for; Reconnaissance. However, many "experts" seem to think that taking the human out of the cockpit of front line fighters is safer for several reasons. First and foremost, no American lives would have to be risked in combat if no human pilots were in the cockpit. Secondly, the greatest limitation to aircraft design at this point is the pilot. The aircraft are certainly capable of pulling more Gs than a human being could cope with.

My opinion is that if something is worth killing for, it had better be worth dying for. At the time (and more and more I'm feeling this way again, maybe it's time to look into the Air Guard.) I felt that if my country said that a matter was worth taking another persons life over, I was willing to place my life on the line to do that. Otherwise, there's no accountability. Risk is the ultimate set of checks and balances. Without risking an American soldiers life, We wouldn't have any emotional investment in bombing or invading another country. I envision Generals, sitting in their office with their boots up on their desks, watching their war real-time on their computer monitor. Smoking cigars and enjoying the war movie as it happens.

Not only that, but there's no way a guy at a desk hundreds of miles away flying the damed thing is capable of making the split second decisions and seeing the whole batttlefield in the same way that a pilot in the cockpit can. Almost ten years ago, during the Kosovo conflict, The Air Force decided that it was going to scale back the use of A-10s in close air support roles (for which it was designed) and moved F-16s into the picture. An F-16 pilot, who doesn't have the liberties of loiter time, slow speeds, or durability in the face of enemy fire, sighted what he thought might be an enemy vehicle traveling along a road, and in the limited time he had to make the decision, he fired and destroyed the vehicle: A tractor, pulling a trailer full of refugees. Wrong equipment for the mission. And we seemed to have learned nothing from this.

Apart from being a pilot, and being adamantly opposed to having my job taken away by a radio controlled airplane, I believe there are several serious moral issues that go along with Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles. Where does it stop from there? Unmanned tanks? Robotic soldiers? Fuck it, why bother sending anything but nukes?

This is merely my opinion. I have the utmost respect for those laying their lives on the line everyday all around the world to protect our freedom. Whether or not I agree with the conflicts with which we are currently engaged, I Respect every man and woman who puts on the uniform in the morning.

I actually am seriously considering joining the Air National Guard after I finish with Embry-Riddle as a way to supplement my income, get some benefits for my wife and kids (coming soon. hopefully) and let the government pay for me to get some more hours.
Guess I better start running again.

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I don't see any "moral" problems really. People have become increasingly removed from the action already. Guns are more impersonal than knifes. Guided missiles have pretty much replaced dumb bombs and cannon. Reducing the danger.

We still have to remain accountable and not go around killing people willy nilly. For one thing there's more and more exposure through the media to the public. Both on "our" side and "theirs".

I don't know what the time delay between an operator on the ground and the UAV is. For a battle against low tech opposition, like against "insurgents", there is no worry about jamming, and the operator can be pretty close. Surely they are capable of making essentially realtime decisions.
As far as the difference between firing a rifle-stabbing a man with a sword, I don't think that compares to Shooting a man with a missile when you're not even within a hundred miles of the man you're killing.
I think the Bush Administration has done a wonderful job of removing the media as a check/balance for our actions. Seeing as how the news isn't allowed to show pictures of the flag-draped coffins being unloaded. So, we get the filtered news that says "Hey! the surge is working!" but the average citizen doesn't have any concept of how many Americans (Not to even BEGIN to count the innocent Iraqi civilians) that have been injured, maimed and killed. The mere fact that more American soldiers have now died in the War on Terror than the victims that perished in the September 11th attacks is reason enough to question whether or not we're fighting in the right place or against the right people.... but I digress.

And as for the third point, I hadn't even considered delay, which wouldn't be a serious issue. I was more referring to the fact that The UAV can only see through a camera. It doesn't have peripheral vision, it can't "keep it's head on a swivel" and it's resolution, even with HD imaging, can NEVER be as sharp as the human eye. A computer can definitely miss things that a human eye would certainly pick up.

Respectfully, of course! :)

--
Tom Hurst
Atmos Photography
[link]
and check out my Cafe Press store [link]
I know this isn't exactly the response you were looking for but, Are you at the Riddle AZ campus?
If so, I'm in Mesa right near the Williams Gateway airport doing my training for Mesa Airlines. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
More on the UAVs later. :-)

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"Upon reaching 18,000 ft. , "Gang" throttled back, tipped the Earth on its head, then put it back under us as we settled straight an level. "

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I won't say anything about war in Iraqi or Afghanistan, or wherever, 'cos i don't want to start some war on DA.
UAV?,they're ok, but only as Reconnaissance planes, but not for the fighting. When I'll be older, i want to join airforce, maybe not USAF, but RAF maybe, or at least Polish airforce, to 'feel' the plane.
And what's more if the UAV's will be piloted (good word?) even by the experienced pilots, on the other side of globe, there will be mistakes. Or probably, the computers will check pilot target's and tell him, whether they're friend or foe (I mean on earth) and if the comp will think the target is friend, he won't shoot.
And we all knew that computer's have lags, or they can show the 'blue screen', and what's then? On board computer will take over the plane?And what if the AI will fck up and think that friendly soldiers, are the Bad Guys? And now we're going to the Terminator vision of future.

Sorry for all the mistakes :)

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While I have little to no experience on that issue and should better keep my mouth shut, it's a topic worth thinking about, to say to the least...
Just looking at the Predator makes me think of 'Look, I'm robotic'. I don't see the point of removing the pilots from their place, so I agree with what you said... it's just a fair deal of taking life and giving your own in the process (not always, but there's the risk of it) - people don't usually join the army if they know they might wind up losing their lives, or am I mistaken here?

I also agree with what =DarkR0bert mentioned. While it might have been a good idea to let the computer do everything, what if it fails? There won't be a pilot to fix it.
The whole idea strikes me as odd. It may have been considerate of the pilots, but that's just too egoistical for my tastes - or it could just be another nonsensical reason, who knows?

Anyway, I endorse the fact that camera vision =/= pilot vision. There will, of course, always be mistakes, no matter how hard you try to extinguish them and I doubt even the most intelligent computer could replace a human mind. :)
Yep. Up here in Prescott. You know, where it's not so freakin' hot! hehe.

--
Tom Hurst
Atmos Photography
[link]
and check out my Cafe Press store [link]
lol, it hasn't been too bad here. At least, not since I've been here.

--
(_-=-Qphacs-=-_)
------
"Upon reaching 18,000 ft. , "Gang" throttled back, tipped the Earth on its head, then put it back under us as we settled straight an level. "

Buy My Prints!!!
Currently the UAVs may not have the same ability to look around as a guy in a cockpit does, but give it time. Pilots currently use cameras and stuff to take a close look at things anyway. Why can't the guy in the controlroom have the camera on the plane "slaved" to his head motion, the same as a guy in an apache or probably most military aircraft. I understand the total resolution of a camera or display does not compare with the human visual system yet, but it's getting there.

The expendability of the thing in the sky makes it easier for the pilot to make dispassionate, considered opinions. I imagine a lot of mistakes are made due to people being under pressure. If you think it's likely the thing on the ground is about to kill you, you're going to want to shoot first.

As for whether it's a just war etc, that's another question. And quite a complicated one. You even say that the deaths on the battlefield being more than those in the twin towers counts heavily against the war. If it was all UAVs and robots, those numbers would be significantly less.

I think UAVs are going to become more common. Like the Knights of old, the Knights of the sky are becoming obsolete. A shame for sure. Don't think they'll get totally phased out anytime soon though. I really want there to be another generation of manned super fighter/bomber aircraft. I guess there isn't much point nowadays, unless we fall out with China or something. Even then it's kind of a pissing contest, because we could all just nuke eachother anyway. Ho hum.
I agree that if you are willing to take a life, you should be willing to give up yours. Since WWI the soldier, as well as pilots have distanced themselves from the battle. Bigger and better weapons, advances in technology, etc. Just part of the evolutionary process. My son is currently in ANG and just completed his AFOQT.

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